Kylie Kwong and the 5 Glass Ghosts

Tinfoil Swans Podcast

On this episode

When chef Kylie Kwong introduced that she was going to be shuttering her vacation spot eating spot Fortunate Kwong to tackle a brand new function on the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney, working on the intersection of meals, neighborhood, and schooling to honor the individuals and meals which have made Australian delicacies so distinctive and treasured — it made sense. Kwong has at all times centered humanity in all the pieces she does, together with this uncooked and astonishing dialog about cooking for a primary date, valuing the knowledge of elders, discovering your means by means of grief, and a lot extra.

Meet our visitor

After three a long time as a chef, writer, TV presenter, and cultural ambassador, Kylie Kwong joined the Powerhouse Affiliate Program at Sydney, Australia’s Powerhouse Museum. Her work there entails three tasks together with the exploration of the Chinese language communities of Western Sydney, a celebration of the culinary traditions in Harris Park’s Indian neighborhood, and meals schooling for varsity youngsters. Kwong’s modern Cantonese Australian delicacies at her eating places Billy Kwong and Fortunate Kwong earned her a global fanbase, and he or she is broadly thought to be a driving drive within the motion to make use of and respect indigenous Australian substances like Warrigal greens, saltbush, and Davidson plums. Her first collection, Kylie Kwong: Coronary heart and Soul, premiered in 2003 alongside a e book of the identical title, and Kwong has since grow to be a fixture on Australian tv in addition to a celebrated cookbook writer.

Meet our host

Kat Kinsman is the chief options editor at Meals & Wine, writer of Hello, Anxiousness: Life With a Unhealthy Case of Nerves, host of Meals & Wine’s podcast, and founding father of Cooks With Points. Beforehand, she was the senior meals & drinks editor at Additional Crispy, editor-in-chief and editor at massive at Tasting Desk, and the founding editor of CNN Eatocracy. She gained a 2024 IACP Award for Narrative Meals Writing With Recipes and a 2020 IACP Award for Private Essay/Memoir, and has had work included within the 2020 and 2016 editions of The Greatest American Meals Writing. She was nominated for a James Beard Broadcast Award in 2013, gained a 2011 EPPY Award for Greatest Meals Web site with 1 million distinctive month-to-month guests, and was a finalist in 2012 and 2013. She is a sought-after worldwide keynote speaker and moderator on meals tradition and psychological well being within the hospitality trade, and is the previous vice chair of the James Beard Journalism Committee.

Highlights from the episode

On taking a leap of religion

“A few 12 months and a half in the past I used to be saying to a few of my buddies, ‘, I’ll be 55 quickly,’ and that’s under no circumstances outdated, however it was an consciousness that I had been on this similar trade for all of these years and maybe had a want to do one thing totally different. However there was additionally an anxiousness. I stated to them, ‘I do not know what to do. I solely know how one can be a chef and a restaurateur.’ And so they stated, ‘Do not be so ridiculous. You might have this lifetime’s value of expertise. You might have so many connections to neighborhood and your entire totally different passions. You possibly can be a advisor, you may freelance.’ That planted a seed and gave me slightly little bit of confidence.”

On a lightbulb second

“When René Redzepi first got here to Australia in 2010, he gave a keynote handle on the Sydney Opera Home as a part of the Sydney Worldwide Meals Pageant. All the meals trade went as a result of we had been very on this younger Danish man. What was he all about? He stated, ‘Hello, everybody. I have been in Sydney for per week. The place’s the kangaroo? The place’s the emu? The place’s the Warrigal greens? The place is the saltbush? I do not see any of this in your menu.’ Then he began talking concerning the significance of cooks or cooks utilizing native produce to precise a sure time, place, historical past, tradition, taste, reminiscence, custom, of the nation they’re in. That was simply this unbelievable lightbulb second for me. I sat up in my chair and I assumed to myself, ‘Kylie. Why have not you been utilizing native substances?’ The subsequent day, I made some cellphone calls.”

On culinary diplomacy

“Discovering Australian native substances and integrating these substances into my Cantonese-style meals actually gave me a possibility to create an genuine and significant model of conventional Australian Chinese language meals. That is what I have been providing ever since 2010. It not solely labored from a scrumptious standpoint; there appears to be a pure simpatico between the great, singular, distinctive, distinct flavors of Australian native substances with the savory profile of Cantonese substances. It additionally marked the start of a realization of how influential cooks and restaurateurs might be when it comes to cultural advocacy, social advocacy, and political advocacy. It was my means of supporting, respecting, and acknowledging the primary Australians. With out being overtly political, my workers and I are actually serving you the saltbush truffles or the steamed dumplings with Warrigal greens. After which the client says, ‘These style lovely. What’s that inexperienced leaf?’ After which we begin the dialog.”

On staying out of the kitchen — or not

“I keep in mind the primary week I arrived on the museum, I used to be texting my spouse, Nell, and I stated, ‘This simply feels so bizarre.’ Each single factor about this new chapter is totally totally different. Even the best way I used to be utilizing my physique. I used to be sitting at my desk and doing numerous typing, which was simply so uncommon. I imply, I am a chef, I am often reducing and what have you ever. There is a workers kitchen which truly overlooks the workplace, so it is all nonetheless open. I stated, ‘I’ll sit on the kitchen trigger I simply really feel so at residence.’ And she or he’s like, ‘You are so humorous. You’ve got at all times gotta be close to the fridge.'”

On the power of grief

“Grief is, on the finish of the day, power. And what I’ve discovered is that we’ve a channel by means of which to precise the power. We get into bother once we do not categorical grief power. It will get buried down beneath, it would not go anyplace. It simply festers and turns into monsters, and comes out while you least count on it. It comes out in very distorted methods in a single’s every day life.”

On Fortunate

“I at all times simply thought I might have youngsters trigger that is what we did in our household and we had been excellent at it. We all know how one can be moms. Nell at all times needed to have a household as nicely. Thankfully and far to our nice happiness, Nell fell pregnant in 2012, however then very, very sadly and tragically, Fortunate got here means too early and we had a stillborn son. From 2012 to about 2017, it was a fog, a haze. And I keep in mind when this dreadful tragedy occurred, we each stated to the grief counselor on the hospital, ‘How lengthy does this dreadful feeling stick with us?’ And she or he stated, ‘It often takes a number of years for that depth to type of reduce.’ After which she stated, ‘Possibly after 5 years you’ll begin to really feel some type of stage of normality.’ That appeared like an eternity. However when you fast-forward to 10 years after Fortunate was born, that is once I opened Fortunate Kwong. It was a really particular restaurant in honor of my misplaced youngster. Once I take into consideration the journey that Nell I went on to get to that time, the place she was snug with me naming the restaurant that and he or she truly felt completely happy about it, and I used to be completely happy about it — I felt very pleased with us. We made it by means of and we’re nonetheless very shut, if not nearer. And one of many issues that I’ll at all times love her so deeply for is that even by means of that darkest hour when Fortunate got here into the world, she stated to me, ‘We mustn’t ever lose the love that made Fortunate.'”

In regards to the podcast

Meals & Wine has led the dialog round meals, drinks, and hospitality in America and world wide since 1978. Tinfoil Swans continues that legacy with a brand new collection of intimate, informative, stunning, and uplifting interviews with the largest names within the culinary trade, sharing never-before-heard tales concerning the successes, struggles, and fork-in-the-road moments that made these personalities who they’re at the moment.

This season, you may hear from icons and innovators like Daniel Boulud, Rodney Scott, Asma Khan, Emeril and E.J. Lagasse, Claudia Fleming, Dave Beran and Will Poulter, Dan Giusti, Priya Krishna, Lee Anne Wong, Cody Rigsby, Kevin Gillespie, Pete Wells, David Chang, Raphael Brion, Christine D’Ercole, Channing Frye, Nick Cho, Ti Martin, Kylie Kwong, Pati Jinich, Darron Cardosa, Bobby Flay, and different particular company going deep with host Kat Kinsman on their formative experiences; the dishes and meals that made them; their joys, doubts and goals; and what’s on the menu sooner or later. Tune in for a feast that’ll feed your mind and soul — and loads of knowledge and quotable morsels to savor.

New episodes drop each Tuesday. Hear and observe on: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you pay attention.

These interview excerpts have been edited for readability.

Editor’s Word: The transcript for obtain doesn’t undergo our customary editorial course of and should comprise inaccuracies and grammatical errors.